IF I SEEK US
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Should not intelligent, reasonable men of good will be able to agree on all things that matter?

"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to
  one who is striking at the root." - Henry David Thoreau
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Theological Issues

   Specific Doctrines
Awareness Level of "God"
Calvinism
Origin of Soul Terms
Destiny of Man
Determinism & Foreknowledge
The Question of Blame
Understanding Forgiveness
Punishment of God
Personal Relationship with God
The Case for Unity
The Gift of Miracles
The Issue of Brotherhood
The Judgment of God
What about Death?
Who WAS Jesus?
Why God not More Involved?
   Sin and Evil
Meaning of Word Sin
The Problem of Evil
The Devil and Satan
The Unpardonable Sin
   Resurrection
Credibility of the Resurrection
Proposed Resurrection Scenario
The Issue of Physicality
   Second Coming
Traditional Advent
Waiting for Godot
Why God Waits
   Belief
Contrast of Believers
The Issues of Belief
Guilty of What?

The pathway to understanding involves asking the
right questions UNTIL we get the right answers.

Who WAS Yeshua?
And what was/is Yeshua?
Updated: 06/08/2021

The two violent branchings

Setting aside the Copts in Egypt and other somewhat isolated pockets of adherents around the world, in terms of "believers" in Yeshua the first great branching produced Christians and Gnostics. After Christianity grew in numbers, spread around the known ancient world, and became institutionalized, entrenched and allied with civil authority in Europe, it militarily wiped out by killing and heavily persecuting most of that continent's Gnostic sects and believers under the banner of the Pope. The next great branching, also a violent and military one took place via the Reformation, and produced Protestants alongside the established Catholics. Today, included in the world's most populous religion, we have thousands of different denominations and sects that fall under the labels of Protestant, Catholic, and Other.

Christians that don't believe historical Jesus

There are even a few people that call themselves "Christian" that are unsure whether Yeshua was even historical! There are two important factors that help undergird this position. Although more archeological snd historical evidence hss been uncovered as time goes on, one is the lack of overwhelming evidence. But excepting for the historic impact on the spiritual and religious world, we shouldn't expect much more than we have of the normal kind of evidence for the historicity of Yeshua.

For the second factor see the articles Cult influence on Christianity, The Immobile God, Saturn & Christendom, and Sanctuary was Moloch's Tent, These among others detail the extremely large inclusion into Christianity of ancient somewhat global Saturnian mythos, symbols, rites, rituals and sacraments. Most of these are  illegitimately imposed upon the Gospel message and intent, and range from unnecessary to downright ridiculous, counter productive. and idolatrous. It must be said that both Yeshua and John used some of the prevailing and prolific ancient mythos in their conversation to draw a parallel and attention to make an important point or claim, but you will find neither one endorsing an equation of Yeshua with the Saturnian god, nor encouraging the ongoing tradition.

Regardless, these above referenced people don't see that it matters because they have a civilized set of values and a strong belief in the merit of the primary teachings concerning a creator, love, equality, brotherhood, forgiveness, etc., whatever their source. That is enough for them to identify with "Christianity". Not only do they not get very excited about it, but this position leaves them free to incorporate almost any other concept or doctrine that suits their fancy, even ones that are outside of or contrary to what Yeshua espoused and that are anathema to the balance of Christians. For acceptable identity in the Western world it doesn't hurt that Christianity is the most prominent and influential religion.

Trinity or not

Essentially, excepting for those in this latter class, almost all Christians accept that Yeshua was the literal creator of all, even though they confuse things by bringing in concepts of the Trinity, which leaves them unacquainted, closed or repulsed at worst and uncomfortable at best with the idea that Yeshua preceded the created agency, which was for his life on Earth his literal Father. Likewise, they do not understand that he was the source of the Holy Spirit, the "God Spirit", truth inspired attitude, or Inspirational Love Attitude, whatever your favorite term is.

The Gospel writers John and Thomas make the most extreme claim, which is that Yeshua was the First, the original person, the Beginning; and so in John's mind Yeshua was The Originator. He makes that clear in the first few verses of his Gospel while stipulating that Yeshua was THE Logos, the original source for all will, purpose, reason and wisdom..

Accordingly, Yeshua made this claim about himself, that he was the first, "before Abraham 'I AM'", the original life source, the primordial intelligence and will before there was a physical cosmos, the fount of truth, the ONE. Clear enough! On the other hand, he talks about his "Father" and makes it clear that the Father is greater than he is, and that when necessary he defers to the Father's will. How can this be? How can both of these constructs be true and how is it possible to sort all this out so that it is clear, reasonable, good and simply makes sense?

Apparently, many disciples ultimately came to this conclusion of Yeshua as creator after first thinking he was just the Messiah, and Paul was in accord with it. In fact, there is no argument in the New Testament against this foundational Christian tenet that he was the Creator. However, most Christians that are Trinitarian think that Yeshua just performed the role of the visible, active agent for the Trinity in the creation process. Given that we are directed to pray to the Father, and that any immediate personal contact is restricted to some mystical infusion with the Holy Spirit to guide our lives, the effect is one of reducing Yeshua to third place in practical importance.

Although the founder of Islam accepted that Yeshua was a great and holy man, a prophet, the current Islamic spiritual leaders pay little or no further attention to him. Canvass the many Christian books, magazines, journals and materials and see that the articles are about the "church", its issues and problems, about the challenges that Pastors confront, that individuals face in a daunting world, about the role of the Holy Spirit in our lives, issues concerning the Bible, etc., and not about Yeshua and who he was in terms of a concrete conceptual relationship with the Father, and how the "Holy Spirit" is HIS attitude.

Why care about this issue?

Well, SO WHAT? While looking at an incredibly troubled world of woe, 1300 years^[*] of nothing much out of Christendom except unfulfilled expectations, the global cacophony of confusion, the ongoing fragmentation and lack of unity, the increasing welter of diverse doctrines, the myriad reasons to question and not accept the Bible or other ancient scriptures as being the word of God, the growing conviction that there is no God (at least one that cares enough to get meaningfully involved), the assault of evolutionary science, the endless disconfirmations of traditional beliefs, etc., ad nauseam, why should an educated, reasonable man care about these issues of who and what Yeshua was or is? How can these legitimately have any relevance in this life, and so what is the point of trying to sort them out? There is no strong voice out there demanding that we understand these deep issues. On the contrary, this sentiment prevails: "Who can know thy ways?" describing an enigmatic God. Why not leave these issues in the arcane domain of the professional theologians?

The answer to these latter questions is that without understanding who or what Yeshua, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are, and their actual relationship, we CANNOT get the fullest sense of the magnitude of the passion play demonstration, the incredible faith that Yeshua had in his own creation of the human family–of which we are a part–that he started. The full impact of the Gospel is left hollow, fallow and unappreciated.

"Father" is Corpus of Unfallen

If we understand that the "Father" is the corpus of all unfallen human beings in the universe with a collective consciousness, all those that began life because of and subsequent to the Originator, and if we understand that Yeshua as the Originator of all things put his very existence into the hands of this created agency; then we can see the magnificence of HIS faith in his creation, his family, his sons and daughters. Only then can we fully see that his character is purposed to serve and he has not retained any special privilege, power or sovereignty over his family and the universe. He has chosen equality rather than to be ordinate, and to have ONE vote in a non-theocratic democracy, which he doesn't use! "The first shall become the last, and the last first." This has never really been fully appreciated before.

A Risky Mission

Think about it! If you were pre-existent, pre-eminent, immortal with ultimate power, personally impervious to evil except through your feelings, why would you ever irrevocably turn it over to someone else, some other agency? What could possibly motivate you to even CONSIDER doing that? Why would you not only do that, but then go even further and put your very existence into its hands, willingly allow it to take your life away and trust it to start your life over as a zygote in the womb of a woman in a hardened idolatrous culture of a fallen and evil world? How could you trust that agency to care for you, nurture you, and to infuse you with all your previous aspects and dimensions, everything that you had before so that nothing was lost in the process? Why would you willingly subject yourself to the limitations and evils of this world, including a life directed not at usual human goals and success nor social, romantic, sexual fulfillment, but for a "risky" mission, an ordeal of being unappreciated, one of intense frustration, the chance of mission failure resulting in humiliation, shame, torture and a denigrating death among other failed revolutionaries?

Can we see that Yeshua came so that he could truly and completely EMPATHIZE
with the human condition on earth, and not just SYMPATHIZE? - Site author

What short of lunacy could motivate one to risk a naked crucifixion hanging on the great Saturnian symbol of the cross, an exacerbating venture resulting in a death that actually transpired? What is worth risking this kind of mission failure that temporarily yet to this point in time actually prevails and seems–without the application of heavenly intervention and force, which will NEVER happen–, insurmountable in such a perverse, insane world!

This may all be very hard to fathom, and yet this is truly what happened! Only unalloyed and otherwise unfathomable love and trust could foster or even ALLOW such a development, and maybe only this series of events could fully demonstrate that such nobility, love and trust actually exist as more than just an ideal. Is it only this development that gives the complete answer and cure once doubt has entered the arena and Sin and evil have arisen? Yes, only this vision can inspire us to triumph all the way and ensure that Sin–mistrust in the character, motives and efficacy of the Originator–will never again arise throughout all eternity, even in a growing yet completely free universe!

Only this reality can make the "five trees of paradise"–the five scars on the head, wrists and feet of Yeshua–into the five most beautiful features in the entire universe forever.

[*]  In the revised C.E. Chronology, approximately 730 years gets subtracted from the first millennium, thus having Yeshua living about 1300 years ago.

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